»Reported by Adam Martin of WrestleView.com

On Monday, July 25, 2005 at 3:54 PM EST

Jimmy Van of JimmyVan.com sent in the following:

I recently spoke with former NWA President, now WWE consultant Bill Behrens. It was a 90-minute discussion about a variety of topics including ECW's "screwing" of the NWA, working with WCW, AJ Styles, Matt Hardy's firing from WWE, and lots more.

Part two of the interview (which is 29 minutes in length) is now online at JimmyVan.com in Windows Media and Real Audio formats. You can also listen to a five-minute preview clip of the interview in Real Audio format at this link:

http://www.jimmyvan.com/audio/behrens/part2/behrens-051905-clip2.ram

Here is a text transcript from this portion of the interview – note that it was conducted prior to the announcement that TNA had signed with Spike TV.

When you were the NWA President, you were really approachable and receptive to the media, and then Ernie Todd took over, and you really don't hear much about him. Why do you think they decided to give the presidency to him?

Bill said he couldn't answer the question and the people involved who thought it was a good idea are the best ones to ask. "As time has passed, who knows, they could be reconsidering those positions but that would be up to them to decide." Bill went on to say, "The presidency of the NWA is a meaningless title. I don't mean that to belittle the NWA or the idea of authority within it. But the way that we are structured, we're run by the membership." Bill explained that each member is the same in terms of voting and power, and that the position of president is more of a figurehead position. He said he tried to keep the NWA "out there." "We're only as important as people will let the brand be," Bill said. "The validity of the NWA is the enhancement of its brand beause that is what it is. It's not a promotion. The NWA is a brand that is utilized by promotions." Bill said some of the people in the NWA may not agree with him and may believe that they're a unified group that's all for one, and one for all. But he said it should be remembered that the government once went after them for being a monopoly, and there is still a legal ruling that prohibits the NWA from linking together promotions in a controlling sense. "Sometimes we misunderstand what the NWA is. The NWA is a brand that has tremendous value. And the more people use it - TNA being an example - the better off we are."

What do you think about the AWA... some people say it's not the real AWA... but they're trying to do the same thing.

Bill said, "This Dale Gag-nee guy," when referring to the "AWA Superstars" promoter. JV said he once worked for Dale Gagner and it wasn't a positive experience, and Bill jokingly said, "I'm sorry." Bill also joked that they went from underwear model to underwear model in reference to the AWA putting their title on Eric Priest, and then on Evan Karagias. "The key sales pitch now for the Gagner thing is, 'We're Cheaper Than the NWA,'" said Bill. He said their membership fee is, "like a dollar, or a coupon or something." Bill said the AWA is remembered because The Road Warriors came in at one point, and that ZERO-ONE joined the AWA because they've got a rivalry with New Japan, which has worked with the NWA.

In 2002, TNA started out with an all-PPV concept. What did you think of that business model?

Bill said he knew about it early because he was working with Jerry Jarrett when he attempted to purchase WCW before the TV slot went away. "The idea was intriguing because the logic was there, but it was a risk," said Bill of TNA's initial plans. Bill said the logic was that when WWE and WCW were competing, they had a large accumulative audience and a good bit of it was unique because they had an hour of overlap, and not everyone left Nitro's first hour to go to Raw, so there was good retention that was uniquely WCW. Bill explained that the theory was that there was a disenfranchised audience that didn't watch WWE, and logic dictated that if there was this audience, and it wasn't that long ago that WCW ceased operations, then that audience should still be available for a new product because they rejected the WWE product. "So the idea of a weekly PPV had merit because the cost was low, it was first run, it was two hours, and it featured particularly at the beginning, a lot of stars you knew," Bill said. "There was a little bit of a response at the beginning, but it was a wonderful experiment that ended up drawing less than 10,000 people on average on a weekly basis. It didn't work." Bill said it caused Panda Energy, who became the financer, to carry a huge debt. On an interesting side note, Bill said he got involved with booking the syndicated Xplosion show and when he realized that the weekly PPV concept wasn't working, he told the Xplosion wrestlers not to worry about working squash matches on Xplosion rather than matches on the PPV since more people were seeing them on Xplosion. He said Eric Watts was the first guy to pick up on and he became "Mr. Xplosion."

It seems over the last little while, TNA is calling themselves just TNA, you rarely hear NWA as part of the product except that the NWA Champion and NWA Tag Team Champions are still on the show. Do you think TNA is trying to distance themselves from the NWA the way ECW did to try to get their own brand?

"That would be a yes and a no," Bill said. "TNA recognizes the value of the brand they've helped enhance, which is our brand, the NWA brand. But at the same time, they recognize that fans are gonna more readily chant "TNA, TNA," because it's more chantable." Bill said TNA is being smart because they're enhancing their own brand, not the NWA brand, which they license. "Why would they invest as much money in their brand as they would our brand? Logic would dictate they would invest as much money as possible in their brand, and use our brand. And any expectation beyond that I think is silly, because I'd do the same thing and did." Bill explained that when he had Wildside, it was sanctioned by the NWA. TNA is "Total Nonstop Action," and they're showcasing the NWA Champion and NWA Tag Team Champions. "That's what we should be expecting of them. Anything else is like, oh thank you," Bill said laughing. "If I'm doing it, I'm enhancing my brand first, the one I'm licensing second ... it's a brand that's owned by somebody else," he said.

Do you think today's fans have an appreciation for the NWA?

"I think there is a pocket of fans that recognize the validity of the title," Bill said. "And I think that it carries a measure of respect that is unique." Bill said the NWA was used by WWE, and OVW was a member as was the IWA before they left due to their association with WWE. "No matter how little the NWA has been, it's had a presence because no matter how hard you try to ignore it, it is still the place where Jack Brisco, Dory Funk Jr., Dusty Rhodes, Gene Kiniski, Harley Race, Shohei Baba... all of these guys were heavyweight champions. A huge legacy of talent that runs over numerous years. And no matter how hard, the one thing that even Vince can't beat is that run, because even his dad was an NWA member."

What do you think about the fact that in WWE they've got two World Titles, including the old NWA Title with a WWE logo on it?

"I think that's a problem for them more than it's a problem for anybody else because the more titles that you try to promote... and they're trying to do their own individual branding towards two shows... it's very difficult. Because you have to get people to care about both brands so they have to make both titles important, but when you bring in WCW and bring in ECW, it doesn't necessarily enhance WWE. It fragments a little bit." Bill added, "The primary brand which is what got them to the party ends up being a little bit compromised... I'm sure there are some within WWE that question the logic of even trying to do that. There's a tremendous argument that can be made for devoting to only one thing. Focus on the one thing you do and do it right."

There were reports that Panda Energy had lost $20 million since taking over as backer of TNA. How long do you think that Panda Energy will continue to basically bleed money for TNA?

"I think they're committed to go for at least another eight to ten months. And I believe they believe that they're very close to a primetime TV platform that will allow them to be competitive. Whether that's realistic is a totally different conversation. But at the same time, I work for WWE right now as a consultant within their Atlanta system... the reality is we need TNA to survive as a competitor. If they're able to come up with something, I think it's great." Bill said he has managed AJ Styles and Chris Daniels, and both are committed to TNA.

There have been rumors that TNA has talked with WGN and Spike TV about a TV deal. How realistic is it that TNA will land a primetime deal?

"I don't know but I would assume also that FSN in the presence of any other interest, would also be a more aggressive potential player, which would also mean their ownership Fox might be a more aggressive player." Bill said his understanding is that all or some of those networks would want to be paid. "If you're paid to carry the show, and you're producing the show, and given the difficulties of selling wrestling inventory, then the reality is you're still in that vicious circle in terms of how you're gonna keep it going. But if somebody, and there are people I think at TNA that believe that this is real, if at least one of those entities is willing to belly up and get into business with TNA and give it a chance, then it could be interesting. That doesn't mean it's gonna lead anywhere because they still have to draw an audience." Bill said WWE is a vertically and horizontally integrated company with a variety of revenue streams, but TNA is not yet. They don't have house shows, they're doing a little TV and PPV. "They have a lot of money being spent but very few places to get it back right now."

There was a rumor that when Jeff Jarrett met with Spike in New York, he told executives that if he could get a primetime TV slot, he could recruit a big time wrestling star. Is there any truth to the rumor that that star is The Rock?

"Who knows, if I were Dwayne I wouldn't do that," Bill said. "There's always the potential that if the platform is there and the visibility is high enough, and the opportunity is right, that almost anybody can be available for the same reason that movie stars change agents every five minutes. Wrestlers are, like other pro athletes, are subject to moving if the deal is better. There's loyalty and at the same time, there's your own personal well being. I can imagine potentially anybody being available, whether any one person regardless can turn the corner for a company, I question. I'm not sure The Rock could do that. I think he could appear, I think people would pay attention, the promoter in me would then go, 'What happens next week?' ... at that point are people waiting for him? The biggest mistakes a promoter can make is to tease somebody down the line, 'We're bringing in whoever,' and then for weeks leading into that, it's just their guys. That shouldn't be a bad thing, that should be the guys they're promoting. So you have to be careful when you tease the big name as the driver, because then everything's counting on that. And if all of a sudden you went out, and let's say The Rock appeared on a TNA show... let's say he did two or three episodes and did a payoff spot. What happens after that, and are people gonna pay attention? Reality is, people are gonna watch the thing that follows and if it's good, they'll stick with it. And if it's not, they won't. So it can help, but it may not be any kind of long-term solution, it may be the literal "hotshot" that gets them into the game." Bill said he doesn't think The Rock would do that because he has too much business tied up with WWE. "Good or bad, 90% of the talent that has worked for Vince over the years, can leave as grumpy as they want, but they all respect him... and most of them come back."

The complete text transcript, as well as the audio version of this portion of our interview with Bill Behrens - in which he also talks about TNA's thoughts on Bill's talks with WWE, pitching Wildside as WWE's developmental system, and more - is online now at JimmyVan.com.

And stay tuned for part three of our exclusive, detailed interview with Bill Behrens!